SAGA COMMENTS   11/19/2000 to 12/02/2000

Barb wrote about the game Starbuck and Cassie play:
>Very true.  So does Cassie.  This was kind of a fun, lighthearted
scene in the midst of all the other chaos.  Whenever I watch that
scene, it seems obvious to me that Cassie knows exactly how much she is
coming on to Starbuck (remember her training), after all- she ought to
be able to "flirt and be flirted with" pretty skillfully), and he knows
exactly how much he is coming on to her.
 
 Exactly!  And about the scene that Cathy mentioned -- in the shuttle
when SB first talks to Cassie.  I see his actions as a blending of both
his "womanizing" knowledge that she is *probably, most definitely* a
socialator (and hence he is very intrigued), but also his true concern
for her well-being.  I may be biased in my view of Starbuck, but
beneath the womanizing, gambling exterior image, lies a noble heart.
 
 >Furthermore, the party of the first part, Starbuck, is well aware
that the party of the second part, Cassie, is engaging in the
aforementioned flirtatious activities with some expectation of reverse
flirtatiousness from the party of the first part, though the party of
the first part is astute enough to realize that he must not "appear" to
be engaging in frivolous flirtatiousness for the purposes of
fraternizing.  On the other hand, the party of the first part must also
make it amply clear to the party of the second part that he is, indeed,
in favour of the flirtations exhibited by the party of the second
part.<
 
     LOL!  I loved this, Barb!  But it is true.  There is an equal
amount of attraction between the two, but each is trying to be careful
not to be too pushy.
     The DVD movie version leaves out the Athena locker room scene, but
that is crucial to understanding this "trio."  Starbuck bared his soul
to Athena, but, unfortunately, his timing stunk.  She was in no
position to respond. Athena may have intended to ask for more time, but
she also clearly states that "Starbuck is just like all the other
warriors, (not those exact words)" and she honestly -- at that moment
-- couldn't bear to open her heart to someone like him.  I feel that at
this critical time after the Holocaust, the two had very strong but
oposing needs -- Athena could not possibly at that moment make a
commitment.  But also, Starbuck desperately *needed* to gasp onto
someone.
     Now, about the "bumping into the stars/steam blast scene."  <g> 
This was another example of the game both SB and Cassie were expertly
playing -- a little come on, a little "shyness." And Cassie definitely
took the lead in that scene.  I fault the writers for making Athena
appear less noble there. Maybe if she had said more than just,
"Colonel, have you seen Lieutenant Starbuck?" -- maybe if she had
looked more like she wanted to have another go at that serious
discussion and looked more serious or troubled.  But she just walks up
casually, searches through the monitors, and then smiles after "the
blast."  A more angry look would have, perhaps, made her behavior there
more justifyable.
     Finally, on the topic of SB/Cassie/Athena -- the scene in the
casino and Stabuck's feeble attempt to "sweet talk" Athena.  The
overall impression there was that Starbuck was *more* concerned about
his winning streak than he was about either girl!
 
My comments for the moment.
 
Maggie  :-)
-------

Hi!
Some questions from Cathy and my thoughts in return:
>        1- Was the original Muffit a golden retriever?
 
No.  He wasn't a golden retriever.  I don't know that breed, though.
Remember the movie "Benji"?  He was a "Benji" dog, whatever breed that
may be.
 
>        2- I understand that the character of Serina was supposed to
be sick, dying in fact, throughout the movie.  While she does look
pretty bad in the middle of the movie (washed out), why does she look
so great at the end, when the illness would be at its peak?<
 
I think by the time SoaSw was released/shown, Serina was not sick. 
That part had been changed, though it was an original idea.
 
>        3- Why did they cut out the section between Starbuck and
Athena in the locker room?  When watched with the scene in tact,
Starbuck's willingness to become involved with Cassie is much more
understandable - and Athena's actions when she finds them in the launch
tubes come off as much more
petty.<
 
Which version do you have?  This sounds like the one I have on DVD. 
But I agree -- the locker room scene is *very* important.
 
>        4- Another point involving Starbuck.  While he is played as a
space Casanova in the rest of the series, his attentions to Cassie seem
to be borne out of pity for her and fear for her safety,  not just
hormones.  Makes him a lot more likable, in my opinion.<
 
Ooooh, I totally agree with you here.  :-)  Starbuck is a paradox,
really -- equally childish/
hormone-and-money-driven/thoughless-at-times, but also very caring,
committed (to friends like Apollo and Boomer) and honorable, deep down. 
He would never *deliberately* betray or hurt someone (that doesn't mean
it doesn't happen unintentionally, though).
 
 
>        5- Why didn't we ever see foreign languages, or even accents,
in the series?  From the scene where Cassie translates, its obvious
that each colony had some sort of native tongue.  Maybe cultural and
linguistic differences are something that we fanfic writers could
elaborate on.<
 
 This has alway bugged me about BSG.  And you're right -- there is LOTS
of potential for fan fic here, elaborating on the cultural difference.

Maggie  :-)

-------

Hi!
>I was thinking about a couple of things.  One was: why didn't they use
Sire Uri in the series?  Sure, maybe they couldn't have gotten Ray
Milland, but it wouldn't have been the first time the actor playing a
character changed between the pilot and the series.  I think it's
usually assumed he perished on Carillon but there's no reason to
believe he couldn't have survived. Matter of fact, he's just the
selfish sort who would have elbowed women and children out of the way
to get on the shuttle.  I think he would have provided much more
interesting political intrigue had he been used in the series as well.
I liked Fran's use of him in her last story (or at least the last one I
read).<
 
I agree!  He could have been a foil to Adama throughout the series,
especially towards the end.  I can see him demanding that they settle
on Terra, even . . .
 
>I also noticed (again) how, outside of one mention of his Mom when he
was down on Caprica, Apollo never really talks about her again.  We
hear about Zac at least twice later on, and, quite frankly, Apollo
shows a lot more emotion over his brother's death than his Mom's.<
 
Well, this I understand, maybe, since Apollo felt directly responsible
for Zac's death, since he had to leave him behind.  I can also see him
just locking away the pain he felt for his mother's death.  Take the
scene in the Gemonese freigther, when SB and Boomer approach him and he
yells at Starbuck.   When compared with the relationship that we know
exists among those three, Apollo comes off as very formal there -- too
formal.  I see him, at that moment, struggling to deal with all of the
pain.
 
>Athena has two emotional "moments" on the bridge during/immediately
after the attack and that's it.  By the time the famous locker room
scene with Starbuck happens, she's pretty blase about the whole thing. 
Starbuck seems to feel worse about Zac's death than she does. I thought
the loss of both Mother and sibling would have been harder on them than
we saw (granted, they only have so much screen time).  Ditto for
Adama, although we got to see how deeply the whole thing affected him
on a couple of occasions.<
 
About Athena -- we hear about how bad an actor Maren Jensen was.  Maybe
that is why we don't see more reactions from her.  In the locker room,
though, she seems "numb" to me, not blase.  It is an absolute crime
that that scene is edited out of some versions.  Heck, even the Sci-Fi
channel leaves it in! However, she does seem too relaxed by the time
she is looking for SB and initiates that steam blast.
 
>One last thing I noticed this time 'round was that the only people who
saw Adama "lose it" emotionally were his children.  The first time was
with Apollo in their house on Caprica and the second was in his
quarters on the Galactica with Athena.  I thought those scenes were
appropriate and somewhat of an attempt at balance by the writers.<
 
Yes!  It was good -- no vital! -- to see the emotional side of Adama. 
It definitely helped to balance his character.  And we then appreciate
his strength later on.   I think that this episode shows the potential
that BSG had.  If the writers had had more time, there could have been
many more wonderful and in-depth stories.  There was sooooooo much that
wasn't explored -- just about the people in the Fleet.
 
Maggie  :-)
 
-------

In a message dated 11/19/00 8:29:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
hutchtx@flash.net writes:
 
<< I think by the time SoaSw was released/shown, Serina was not sick. 
That part had been changed, though it was an original idea. >>
 
Actually, in an interview with Jane Seymour, she was playing the part
as a dying woman.  Scenes were shot of Serina consulting with doctors
that were cut out.  While there was no dramatic death scene, Jane
Seymour was shocked when she saw the final cut.  From what this
interview said, she was so ticked off at the producers that they had to
pay her extra to play in LPOTG.
 
                                                    Cathy

Oh!  Really?  I didn't know it had gone that way.  Interesting!  I can
see why she was not happy.  Although, having her sick doesn't seem to
make any sense to me -- as a plot device.  Why would they want it
anyway?  It didn't really fit, IMHO, with the survivor/exodus theme.
 
Maggie  :-)
 
 -------

--- The Hutchisons <hutchtx@flash.net> wrote:
> Oh!  Really?  I didn't know it had gone that way. 

To my understanding, the whole "sick Serina" subplot was to make sure
that Apollo (or Skylar in the days of ol') ended up with Boxey.
 
Sanna
 
=====
 
 Hi Maggie and Cathy,
 
    The original plot of SoaSW did have Jane Seymour's character- Lyra-
dying of radiation poisoning. Marvel released an oversized comic with
that plot forerunning the 23 issue series. Unfortunately I have that
packed away with a script of the same plot, so I can't give you more
detail.
     BTW in that comic Richard Hatch's character was called 'Skyler.'
(Lords!!!)
 
Take care,
 Kerry

-------

--- CozmonauT6@aol.com wrote:
>     The original plot of SoaSW did have Jane Seymour's character-
Lyra- dying  of radiation poisoning. Marvel released and oversized
comic with that plot <

I've got mine somewhere... I think I know where it is, though.  I
forgot about the Lyra name.  Also, Boxey
wasn't Serina's son, if I remember correctly - an element that made it
into the BSG #1 novel adaptation.
 
>     BTW in that comic Richard Hatch's character was called 'Skyler.' 
(Lords!!!)<
 
Ooooh, yeah.  That's just one of the things that made Lucas get a
little irked. :)
 
Sanna
 
=====
 
 In a message dated 11/19/2000 2:05:01 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
seanchaidh101@yahoo.com writes:
 
<<Also, Boxey wasn't Serina's son, if I remember correctly - an element
that made it into the BSG #1 novel adaptation. 
 Sanna,>>
 
    Haven't read the first book in a long time- it's packed away!- but
I  remember that Boxey wasn't Serena's son... just a minor confusing
point.  The important thing is that Apollo adopted Boxey as his son...
demonstrating the great capacity of humankind...
 
<< Ooooh, yeah.  That's just one of the things that made Lucas get a
little irked. :) >>
 
    There were a few similarities between BSG and SW, which Lucas
focused upon.  In the big picture they are two different concepts
illustrating their own unique themes and plots.
 
Take care, Sanna,
 
Kerry
 
=====
 
Okay, I got about halfway through it on DVD taking notes.  Maybe in the
next day or so, I'll finish it.  Feel free to question, comment,
ignore, or use as toilet paper :-)
 
1) When Starbuck is letting Zac take his patrol, he's real hesitant
about it.  Does he have some sort of "bad feeling?"  Apollo seems to
have no apprehensions about letting his brother go.
 
2) A case for Athena being older than Zac: she is a certified shuttle
pilot while it seems that he has never flown solo in space before.
 
3) Does Apollo realize he'll never see Zac again when he leaves him?  I
don't think so - I think he believes that Zac is in no immediate danger
from the incoming raiders.
 
4) The President has said not to launch fighters, but Apollo & Zac are
out on patrol... Also, wouldn't other battlestars have routine patrols
launched as well?
 
5) Back to Athena: I think she was certified as a shuttle pilot and was
in the process of training for bridge duty.  My basis for this is her
reactions on the bridge when Zac is killed and when Starbuck is coming
in "hot" as well as his comment to her "this is no time for training".
 
6) In the DVD, there are none of the scenes of Serina broadcasting from
Caprica.  They just talk about the Cylon baseships launching and then
cut to her screaming for Boxey.  I thought the broadcast was much more
effective.
 
7) When they assess what remaining forces there are left, "67 fighters,
25 of our own".  If what Tigh said was correct that the other
battlestars never got to launch, where did these come from?
 
8) The missing Athena/Starbuck scene in the lockerroom is important -
otherwise he looks like a real cad.  When he lands "hot" Athena is all
over him, then suddenly he's with Cassie.  Watching this if you don't
know what goes on in between, it really doesn't make sense.
 
9) Why is Adama so sure Ila was home???
 
10) Serina's concern over Boxey's daggit seems... well, very trivial
with everything else that was going on.  I understand it's her kid and
all, but it just seemed like something that she should've been able to
take care of without it being such a big deal.  Is Boxey a spoiled kid
of privilege?  I think so from this whole set of circumstances.
 
11)Along those lines, Muffit must've been a prototype that they were
working on already.  Otherwise, why would the scientists stop working
on other problems - potentially major ones with the condition of some
of these vessels - to build a mechanical daggit (I know, its a TV show,
okay?).
 
12)  Boomer and Starbuck try to duck out of the "volunteering" to clear
the mines.  Later on (in the series) they don't seem to have the same
reluctance for the dangerous missions - especially Starbuck.  Does he
go along just to keep his eye on Apollo and his "death wish"?

Toodles,
Patti
 
-------

The Hutchisons wrote:
> Well, this I understand, maybe, since Apollo felt directly
responsible for Zac's death, since he had to leave him behind.  I can
also see him just locking away the pain he felt for his mother's death. 
Take the scene in the Gemonese freigther, when SB and Boomer approach
him and he yells at Starbuck.   When compared with the relationship
that we know exists among those three, Apollo comes off as very formal
there -- too formal.  I see him, at that moment, struggling to deal
with all of the pain.<
 
I agree that he's too formal.  this scene is one that has made me think
that the strong friendship bond was originally supposed to be
Starbuck/Boomer with Apollo the superior.  It is one scene that seems
totally out of character and out of place.
  
Toodles,
Patti
-------

In a message dated 11/19/00 1:51:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
hutchtx@flash.net writes:
 
<<  Although, having her sick doesn't seem to make any sense to me --
as a plot device.  Why would they want it anyway?  It didn't really
fit, IMHO, with the survivor/exodus theme. >>
 
 From what I remember of the interview, she was stricken with a form of
cancer due to radiation exposure during the destruction of the
colonies.  Her reason for becoming close with Apollo was to find a
suitable family for Boxey before she died.  Kind of a "kick in the
pants" subplot, which may or may not have fit with the them.  She died
in the second episode anyway!
 
                                            Cathy 
-------

>10) Serina's concern over Boxey's daggit seems... well, very trivial
with everything else that was going on.  I understand it's her kid and
all, but it just seemed like something that she should've been able to
take care of without it being such a big deal.  Is Boxey a spoiled kid
of privilege?  I think so from this whole set of circumstances.<
 
     You know, that's a pretty good point.  Serina isn't above taking
advantage of her celebrity status.  And she had her child with her at
what appears to have been a very early morning event -- no babysitter? 
I don't recall seeing any other children in the plaza -- special
treatment for the celebrity's child?  In the fleet, Boxey had already
been asking about another daggit, and been told there were none.
     Is there a little guilt at feeling like she dragged her kid all
over the place to suit her broadcasting schedule, and maybe if she
hadn't done that he and his daggit would have been "safe" somewhere
else, not out in the open in the middle of the first Cylon wave? 
Followed by hitting on Apollo to help her and Boxey out?  It is: "I'm
important, the captain will help me.  Even though others have nothing
to eat and no water to
drink and are going through hell, he'll help me snap my kid out of it. 
My kid's depression is more important than anything else going on, it's
enough to take the senior warrior in the fleet off his assigned task."
      If not for Zac's death, would Apollo have helped her, or would he
have told her, "Look, miss, I'm sorry, and I really feel for your
situation, but while our people are starving and our food is poisoned,
I just don't have time to worry about dead daggits.  Take your kid to
ship's doctor, maybe there's a psychtech who can help him."
 
-- Sharon
 

7) When they assess what remaining forces there are left, "67 fighters,
25 of our own". If what Tigh said was correct that the other
battlestars never got to launch, where did these come from? 

Another thing that bugs me. I always assumed/figured out that one of
the other battlestars launched some, somewhere. 

Jo 

-------

In a message dated 11/19/2000 6:22:49 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
AliventiAsylum@worldnet.att.net writes:
 
<< 7) When they assess what remaining forces there are left, "67
fighters, 25 of our own".  If what Tigh said was correct that the other
battlestars never got to launch, where did these come from? >>
 
Hi, 
 
    Been thinking about this in context to writing a story. Perhaps
some of the fighters were planetside and escaped after the Cylons
rained down hades Hole. Maybe some of them were on LRP's- long range
patrols. It's sure an interesting question- one I never thought about
before.
 
Take care,
 
Kerry

-------

>Although, having her sick doesn't seem to make any sense to me -- as a
plot device.  Why would they want it anyway?  It didn't really fit,
IMHO, with the survivor/exodus theme.
 
     Wasn't that before BG got a green light as a series?  
     I can see Serina/Lyra's death as part of the subplot of all the
things happening in the fleet during the exodus -- people are still
dying, there are still residual problems.  It would help set off the
two camps as expressed when Apollo and Boomer broke into Uri's party. 
"Join us in our thanksgiving for deliverance."  "In case it's eluded
you, people are still dying."  Showed that the survivors weren't
escaping unscathed, and there were more than just emotional injuries
left to deal with.
     Then the series got the go, and suddenly there were changes to be
made, and Serina was supposed to stick around -- but she didn't want
to, so they chose to kill her anyway.
 
-- Sharon

-------

>Finally, on the topic of SB/Cassie/Athena -- the scene in the casino
and Stabuck's feeble attempt to "sweet talk" Athena.  The overall
impression there was that Starbuck was *more* concerned about his
winning streak than he was about either girl!<
 
     That bit, I've always taken as a combination of his desire not to
hurt either of them, and more importantly, his desire to avoid a
confrontation with the two of them!  "C'mon, ladies, let's not go
argue...I've got a game here!"  IMHO, it would've been the same if he'd
had a patrol -- "Can't talk now, gals, gotta go save us from the
Cylons!" -- or could use a briefing as an excuse -- "Oh, sorry, gotta
be at the briefing, duty calls..." -- or even a triad practice -- "Now,
Athena, Cassie, Boomer's probably already in the triad arena, can't
keep him waiting..."
     It was a lame 'out' to avoid an argument that he wasn't prepared
for, but it was the best he could do at the moment.
 
-- Sharon
 
-------

Patti Aliventi <AliventiAsylum@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
 
>>Take the scene in the Gemonese freigther, when SB and Boomer approach
him and he yells at Starbuck.<<
 
>I agree that he's too formal.  this scene is one that has made me
think that the strong friendship bond was originally supposed to be
Starbuck/Boomer with Apollo the superior.  It is one scene that seems
totally out of character and out of place. <
 
     This is one scene that makes me think "first year series
syndrome".  If you want to know what I mean, go back and watch the Star
Trek TNG pilot or any ep from their first season.  It's almost painful
watching the actors all try to discover their characters' traits and
motivations compared to watching an ep from a later season when they
are all more comfortable and secure in their characters.  
     I suspect the purpose of the Apollo snapping at Starbuck scene was
probably to show how tense and worried everyone was since they still
had major problems, even after escaping the Destruction.  Maybe also to
show that Apollo felt the need to be very businesslike and to keep some
Captainly distance from his underlings on occasion, too.  Unfortunately
it came off very stiff and forced, IMHO.  Had the actors been more
comfortable with their characters at that point, I think it might have
been different.  
     One thing I thought was sort of neat is how quickly the main BSG
actors did manage to establish their characters in the first season. 
ST-TNG was still uncomfortable into the second season.  
 
Barb

------- 

larry D Monroe <slmonroe@juno.com> wrote:
>>10) Serina's concern over Boxey's daggit seems... well, very
trivial<<
 
>You know, that's a pretty good point.  Serina isn't above taking
advantage of her celebrity status. <
 
     I'm going to play devil's advocate and defend Serina.  I assumed
this very silly set of circumstances arose from back when she was
supposed to be dying.  I figured that Serina decided Apollo was a good
bet for someone to look after Boxey when she died and used the "help my
kid with his daggit" problem as an excuse to get to talk to him.  I
will definitely agree that unless she was desperate (say, 'cuz she's
dying, for instance), the whole Boxey/daggit thing was awfully petty.  
     And the chances of Wilker giving up an experimental robot to a
6-yahren-old kid or wasting time making an electronic daggit when there
are real problems to be dealt with are somewhere between "you want me
to what?" and "what kind of drugs are you on, Captain?".  
 
Barb
 
 -------

Barb notes:
>I'm going to play devil's advocate and defend Serina.  I assumed this
very silly set of circumstances arose from back when she was supposed
to be dying. <
 
And another devil's advocate comes back:
     Ah, but can we use contradicted plot lines to defend the character
motivations and actions?  In the ep we were given, Serina was not dying
from radiation poisoning, and would survive to be shot on Kobol.  So
can we define her character's actions in light of something that
explicitly didn't happen in the script?  Can we explain her behavior
with Apollo as seeking a surrogate father for the child she was soon
leaving, when the editing gods had decided she wasn't really leaving? 
Or are we forced to find possibilities that fit with the plot as shown?
 
-- Sharon

------- 
>>I'm going to play devil's advocate and defend Serina. 
 
>And another devil's advocate comes back:

Ho ho! [pulls a third devil out of her handbag]:
     I'd say it's a possibility since they obviously didn't go back and
re-write the script or re-shoot scenes to make sure the pilot made
sense after they decided on their new plot arc.  All I'm saying is that
the Boxey/daggit thing makes more sense to me in the context of Serina
dying.  However, I think a good case can be made for either
interpretation, so I'm willing to buy either one in a fanfic.  That's
one of the great ambiguities about the show that lets us explore lots
of different possibilities in fanfic.  
 
Barb
 
 -------
 
  
<    Haven't read the first book in a long time- it's packed away!- but
I remember that Boxey wasn't Serena's son 
Kerry>
 
I read the book for the first time 2 years after the pilot originally
aired.  In it, Serina finds Boxey running around alone during the
attack and becomes a surrogate mother for him.  The only thing he would
talk about was Muffit.  I went for years thinking that this was what
happened in the movie version.  Imagine my surprise when I FINALLY got
the Sci-fi channel and learned he was really Serina's son.  I thought I
was losing my mind until I bought the book at a used bookstore and
figured out what was going on.  Talk about confusion :)
 
Margaret
 
 -------
In a message dated 11/20/2000 10:21:28 AM US Mountain Standard Time, 
Meece23387@aol.com writes:
 
<< Imagine my surprise when I FINALLY got the Sci-fi channel and
learned he was really Serina's son.>>

    Larson freely embellishes and changes things in the book series...
it's very confusing and sometimes erroneous. In the book GALACTICA
DISCOVERS EARTH {an unfortunate G 1980 rendering} I think it's Troy who
tells Jaimie Hamilton that the Galacticans have no board games...
hmmmmmm... I know I saw board games in some of the scenes in a few
episodes of BSG.
     In Young Lords, the mother of the squadron of children- not the
father as in the series!!! By the time you get to the books about
Terra- it's a total ball of confusion. Some of the last books in the
series were original stories and very good.  My favorite is Apollo's
War.
 
Take care,
 
Kerry

-------

larry D Monroe wrote:
>>10) Serina's concern over Boxey's daggit seems... well, very
trivial<<

> You know, that's a pretty good point.  Serina isn't above taking
advantage of her celebrity status.<
 
It was just something that struck me watching that scene.  Probably a
lot of guilt, as you pointed out, but you'd think Serina would
understand the conditions of the fleet and kind of push Boxey to worry
about survival.  Except that I think he's never gone without something
he's wanted - we'll see this later when he "wants to see snow" 
 
 Toodles,
Patti

-------

>>When they assess what remaining forces there are left, "67 fighters,
25 of our own".  If what Tigh said was correct that the other
battlestars never got to launch, where did these come from?<<

     I have been thinking about this question myself.  Maybe, when the
other battlestars were under attack, even though they weren't able to
launch full squadrons, a few of the fighters were able to get off the
battlestars during the battle.  It would seem logical that the battle
would have taken some time, and some fighters would have been able to
get off the battlestars, some would have been destroyed as they
launched but other may have made it away from the ships..
Just my opinion....
 
Alverine
allycat@grapevine.net
 
 -------

In a message dated 11/19/00 9:31:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
slmonroe@juno.com writes:
 
<< "I'm important, the captain will help me.  Even though others have
nothing to eat and no water to drink and are going through hell, he'll
help me snap my kid out of it.  My kid's depression is more important
than anything else going on, it's enough to take the senior warrior in
the fleet off his assigned task." >>
 
     I think Serina originally attracted Apollo's attention when she
stopped the assembled survivors on Caprica from getting ugly with him. 
If I remember correctly ( from the distant past of 6 days ago - sigh! )
the crowd was angry with the colonial warriors since they felt that the
warriors should have helped them.
     I think you're right that Zac's death had something to so with
Apollo's attentions to Boxey.  Also, let's face it, there all being
confronted with problems of a large magnitude - most of which are
unfixable.  Now, here's this little boy whose problem (or the problem
he perceives as immediate) is actually fixable.  Surrounded by gloom
and doom, you look for lights in the tunnel.
 
                                                Cathy
-------

BLifesBeautiful@aol.com wrote:
>I think Serina originally attracted Apollo's attention when she
stopped the assembled survivors on Caprica from getting ugly with him.<
<snip>
> I think you're right that Zac's death had something to so with
Apollo's attentions to Boxey.<

     Both excellent points.  For the purposes of my fic, I've
interpreted Apollo's real attraction to Serina beginning as you
describe here.  It made sense to me to tie that to his attraction to
Sheba as well- another strong woman who is not afraid to stand up and
be counted.  
     As far as fixing the fixable, that makes sense as well.  Even in
my job (research) when the "big picture" is falling apart, it's a
relief when some little thing works properly.  I'm sure other people
find this to be the case as well- in big stress and in little stress.  
 
Barb
 
-------

As I have been unable to watch more since the past weekend, here's my
transcribing so far from my notebook of noted notes.
 
SAGA in detail
     Opening music - Did you ever notice what looks like blue
explosions is actually a camera looking directly down at water
splashes?
     During Initial Cylon Attack on the battlestars - One battlestar is
missing a name plate.
     When Apollo is in the Ion Cloud near the Cylon Tankers, there are
more than 5 Cylon Raiders in view.  However, his short term memory is
evident as Zac and himself count and fight only five before seeing the
ambush.
     They push forward on the Viper control stick as if it will make
the viper go faster.  Pushing forward actually pushes the nose "down"
relative to its prior attitude.  We normally see them use the turbo
button to accelerate which make sense.  Stock footage misplaced?
     Raiders fly down over the battlestar, yet without firing.  The
Cylons aren't going to be picky as to where the hit the battlestar so
long as they hit.  Perhaps they don't know what a strafing run in space
is as they do on planets.
     Battlestar Bridge in red lights.  However, when Rigel clears
Apollo/Adama in the one seat viper for launch, it's not red.  Not even
a minute later, it's back to red.  We already know how many times her
hair changes in one setting.  We've also discussed the Apollo/Adama
viper situation.
     Prior to Starbuck's cockpit sparks and fires, Athena was crying. 
When she's on the line to assist him, there are no traces of tears on
her face, or even redness.
     Starbuck's hand is dark skin when he tries to fix his viper in
flight.
     Adama's house is charcoaled from the attack.  So why are his hands
and clothes perfectly clean as he wanders through the house and picks
up the box with pictures in it?
     On Caprica, when we see Apollo's viper, there is no way the viper
would land with the mountain of that steep an incline behind it.  It is
possible there is enough flat area going off to the right if the viper
can taxi on the ground.  There is no evidence of tracks from the
landing gear on the ground.  Even a small airplane's tires leaves marks
after landing on a dirt, gravel or grass strip due to weight.  The
viper would too according to the laws of physics and weight.
     On Caprica, Baltar looks at the same ocean from next to the same
tree as Apollo does.  It is rumoured Baltar is the bastard son of
Adama. If true, he may have been going through Adama's house too. 
That's a big assertion though.
     After the fleeing from the colonies, when Adama tells the people,
"...on a planet called Earth," one lady looks totally stoned.
     On the Gemini Freighter, the man accuses Apollo of lying.  The man
saw them buriticans in luxury on board the Rising Star before he was
cast out like the Borays of humanity.  IIRC, in TMW, those were Borays
who captured Belloby.  If true, give the writers a point for
consistency there.
 
                                                          Robert
                                                 
hanczykr@verizon.net
Home of the Galactica Yahren Spinners' Tale

-------

Robert wrote:
>As I have been unable to watch more since the past weekend, here's my
transcribing so far from my notebook of noted notes. <
 
And may I say how notably noted your notebooked notes appear.  
 
SAGA in detail
>   During Initial Cylon Attack on the battlestars - One battlestar is
missing a name plate. <
 
Aha!  I think this is really a Cylon plot because I seem to remember
seeing this same "secret" battlestar in another episode (can't recall
which one).  I think the Cylons know where the fleet is going because
they have an unmarked battlestar in the middle of the fleet.  They're
probably issuing speeding tickets and making some cubits on the side,
as well.
 
>     They push forward on the Viper control stick as if it will make
the viper go faster.  Pushing forward actually pushes the nose "down"
relative to its prior attitude.  We normally see them use the turbo
button to accelerate which make sense.  Stock footage misplaced? <
 
Oops.  Fire that editor.  Oh, he's no longer employed on the show-
forget it. :-)  It's probably bad editing but I like to think it's from
the days before the actors knew how to pilot the vipers.  You know, it
was early in the season, they still had a lot of practicing to do. 
See, that's really how The Destruction occurred: the actors didn't know
how to fly their ships yet, so the Cylons, who had secretly been
training at a remote USAF airfield somewhere in Nevada (why are these
things always in Nevada?), were able to blast them out of the stars. 
It is little known fact that the reason BSG went from a miniseries to a
full-blown series was that the actors all went out to a video arcade
together, learned how to fly, and turned around and gave the Cylons
"what for."  They weren't expecting that, y'see, so the series had to
be longer because the Cylons just couldn't "put away" those pesky
humans.  
 
>     Battlestar Bridge in red lights.  However, when Rigel clears
Apollo/Adama in the one seat viper for launch, it's not red.  Not even
a minute later, it's back to red.  We already know how many times her
hair changes in one setting.  We've also discussed the Apollo/Adama
viper situation. <
 
I thought it was clear that you _had_ to turn the red light off when
you're launching two people in one viper... 
 
     "Augh!  Dad, quit squirming!" 
     "Don't talk to me that way, I'm the Commander." 
     "Well, you've got a bony butt for such an old guy.  Ow!  Get your
elbow out of my ear!"  
     "If you don't start behaving like a captain should, I'll give you
an elbow in the chops!" 
     "Oh, for cryin' out loud!  Now I can't reach the control stick." 
     "Give me that thing before you hurt yourself!  I'll fly the damn
viper! Where's the red light?" 
     "Who made you Commander?  Everybody knows they don't use the red
light when there's two of us in the viper.  Now, put on your helmet." 
     "Why not?"
     "I don't know!  Look, just give me back the controls before you
kill the both of us." 
     "You think I'm too old to do this, don't you?  I'll have you know
that Colonel Tigh and I were the best viper pilots in..."
     "Augh!  Watch out for that transport!  Didn't they give you a
vision test the last time you renewed your licence?!" 
     "I have poetic licence.  I'm the Commander."  
 
(Just a little known scene that was cut from the pilot)
 
>     Adama's house is charcoaled from the attack.  So why are his
hands and clothes perfectly clean as he wanders through the house and
picks up the box with pictures in it? <
 
See the note above about "Commander's poetic licence."  You can also
look up "Commander's suspension of laws of chemistry and physics" for a
more detailed explanation.  
 
>     On Caprica, when we see Apollo's viper, there is no way the viper
would land with the mountain of that steep an incline behind it.  It is
possible there is enough flat area going off to the right if the viper
can taxi on the ground.  There is no evidence of tracks from the
landing gear on the ground. <
 
See above note about suspension of the laws of physics.  As far as the
choice of landing site goes, Adama was flying.  Need I say more?  :-)
 
>    On the Gemini Freighter, the man accuses Apollo of lying.  The man
saw them buriticans in luxury on board the Rising Star before he was
cast out like the Borays of humanity.  IIRC, in TMW, those were Borays
who captured Belloby.  If true, give the writers a point for
consistency there. <
 
Ding ding ding ding ding!  No, it's not Mr. Trolley.  Give Robert two
thumbs up for recognizing one of the occasional bouts of consistency
the writers experienced.  :-) 
 
Barb,
feeling rather silly on a Friday morning (as if you hadn't noticed).
 
-------

Happy Friday, everyone!
      This starts when we are first taken to the Rising Star right
before Serina runs to fetch Apollo so he can talk to the silent Boxey. 
Notice the hatch Apollo and Boomer climb through separating the ladder
and the second level.  It's the same hatch we see in other ships
including the Cylon Baseship. 
     How about that Bubble Wrap hanging from the ceiling in the room
where the silent Boxey is laying?  You know the extras had to be
popping that stuff in between scenes.
     Serina has a ring on her middle finger.  You can see it when she
has her right hand on Boxey's tummy as Apollo says how he's been
looking all over for Boxey.  I don't know if we see her wearing the
ring in other scenes including the scenes where she is reporting on
Caprica.  Those are cut from the commercial version.  "Ba humbug."
     The brunette leaning against Sire Uri in his private room is
already sporting the "Flashdance" look years before the movie was
created.  She's certainly baring her shoulder well.  This is after
Boomer walks past that woman and looks at her like "Get out of my way
you over-blown, high class thinking, low stooping snid rad.  Thousands
of people starving and you're here looking all prissy and partying."
  
                                                          Robert
                                                 
hanczykr@verizon.net
Home of the Galactica Yahren Spinners' Tale



----- Original Message ----- 
From: <hanczykr@verizon.net>
 
> Notice the hatch Apollo and Boomer climb through separating the
ladder and the second level.  It's the same hatch we see in other ships
including the Cylon Baseship. <
 
Ah, the joy of reusing elements of sets, eh? :)
 
>      How about that Bubble Wrap hanging from the ceiling in the room
where the silent Boxey is laying?  You know the extras had to be
popping that stuff in between scenes.<
 
I can just imagine!  *Snicker*
 
>      Serina has a ring on her middle finger. 

Eric?  Can you check your version?  I know Tigh wears a ring as well.
 
>      The brunette leaning against Sire Uri in his private room is
already sporting the "Flashdance" look years before the movie was
created. <

Um... what's the "Flashdance" look?  *cringes as her age shows yet
again*
 
Sanna

-------

Hi!
 
     I was home sick today, so I watched lots of BSG.  I watched the
beginning of SoaSW twice -- first on the DVD and then on the Sci-Fi
version.  I'm sure there were *still* parts missing!  I was noticing
the reactions of the bridge crew as they watched the destruction of
Caprica.  Tigh, Athena, even Adama had tears.  Omega, Rigel and Apollo
looked numb -- shocked, I suppose.  It's amazing that anyone could keep
functioning as professionally as they did.  What was interesting to me
was to compare Adama and Apollo's reaction.  Apollo never cried.  He
looked anguished, then just serious, as if burying his emotions and
putting up that shield.  Adama cried and showed more emotion than
Apollo did, even in the ruins of their home on Caprica.  I really liked
how they (as Barb mentioned previously) showed this side of Adama.  And
then we saw his strength as he stepped out of the wreckage to face the
mob and Serina.  Ohohohoh.  Symbolism!  Adama grieves in the ashes of
his past, then steps out to face the future with a renewed strength and
determination to survive.
      Now, as I thought about Apollo, I now think the scene where he
admonishes Starbuck and Boomer does fit their friendship and the
circumstances.  At the beginning, we see (on the DVD, at least) their
friendship as SB offers to go with him and Zac -- where they say, "Were
we ever like that?"  After the Holocaust, Apollo has put up his shield. 
He has no room at that time for SB's lightheartedness, so he retreats
behind the formality of their ranks. That part of the show is where
they tried to show the horrors the people faced.  We also see the
contrasts in SB and Apollo's natures there.  Serious vs. "Might as well
live for today."  The time span in Saga is never made clear, but it
must cover several weeks, at least, if not longer.  By the time Apollo
"volunteers" SB and Boomer for the mine-clearing mission, time has
passed (they've had time to elect a new Council, even!), and he is
starting to relax a bit.  His humor is showing again, as it did when he
let Zac take SB's place.
     Anyway, these are my observations from today.  So, do we talk
about LpotG starting on Friday?  I also watched that today, and have
some observations ready to go!  But I'll wait until Friday.
 
Maggie